RBL DISTRICT Meeting
A Roaring Brook Lake District Virtual Meeting was held with Town Supervisor Sam Oliverio on July 11, 2020. There were 65 attendees –a record compared to our usual RBL District Meetings at Town Hall. Thank you, Sam, for your time and attention. And, for being a reasonable, even-tempered voice in a difficult time.
The meeting is well worth watching (even if you were there) but here’s a quick summary if you don’t have the time to watch or listen.
Sam began the meeting by sketching out some broad outlines before zooming in on RBL specific topics:
Taxes and government spending: All government entities have been hard hit financially by the Covid pandemic. For example, NY State has a current budget deficit of $18 billion. In addition, the need for government intervention, in the form of unemployment insurance, food stamps, and other services, is enormous. In order to keep taxes as stable as possible, the Town will accept no increases in costs from contractors for the coming year.
Beaches during Covid: All NY State Beaches are at half capacity. (For RBL half capacity is Children’s: 25, Park: 12, Moon: 12, and Spur: 15). The DOH can close beaches that are over half capacity. If the beach you have chosen is full, please be reasonable, find a space at one of the other beaches.
Rope swing: Sam understands the fun of a rope swing — he remembers swinging on it himself 50 years ago. He says, “50 years ago, no one cared.” The problem is that times change and liability issues change. Liability for an accident would be borne by the District and the Town, and it is just not a sustainable risk to take. Without permission from the Town, no one can cut vegetation or place any structure (or rope) on RBL District or Town property. No one can vandalize the beaches and boat launches. The Town has had to cut the rope down twice and will cut it down again if it goes back up. Later, in the question period, a resident asked if a creative solution to the liability problem could be found. Sam answered that a rope swing could be put up on a private property, in which case the property owner would assume liability. Liability is legally assumed by the property owner. In the case of Cardiac Beach, the property owner is the RBL District.
AirBnB’s and other forms of short term rental. This subject will be discussed in greater detail over the next few months. However, Sam said that short term rentals can have a “tipping point” impact on a community, with impacts on both the appearance of the community (health and usability of the lake) and the quality of life in the community. He said that he would consider allowing owner-occupied short term rentals, although details would need to be worked out. There will be public hearings on AirBnB and these will all be announced on the front page of the Putnam Valley website (PutnamValley.com)
Overpass: The Overpass is 3 to 4 months ahead of schedule. If the good weather and favorable conditions persist, the Overpass could be done in the late spring or summer of 2021. The North-bound Taconic access will be closed for about 2 – 3 weeks, probably in the spring of 2021.
Fishing regulations: Only residents and property owners can fish in Roaring Brook Lake. Each person fishing must have a fishing license (easy to obtain on line or at Town Hall). No fishing is allowed at the swim beaches. Residents can fish from boats or from boat launches.
Enforcement: In general, if there is illegal activity, such as stealing from your property, illegal parking along Town roads, or a gas powered vehicle on the ice, you should call the Putnam County Sheriff (845-225-4300). The sheriff’s office is often over-burdened and sometimes cannot come. Beach capacity is enforced by the Health Department — often residents can work out problems of over-capacity or of strangers on the beach by being polite and reasonable. If not, speak to the lifeguard who will call the Beach Supervisor, who can call Sam, who can call the DOH, who can shut down the beach. If we are having trouble managing the problems ourselves, we can discuss hiring a RBL District security guard. However, a security guard must be licensed and insured and will cost $30 to $40/hr. If the security guard cannot handle the problem, they will call the Sheriff. Alternatively, and less expensively, we can require car stickers to park on District beaches and boat launches (we have them now, but they are not required) or, we can restart a program of Beach tags.
Updating RBL District-specific Town code: Some areas of District-specific Town code have become outdated over time. For example, there is no code that specifies that only residents can park at the beaches and boat launches (although there are signs that say that). Sam suggested that a group of concerned residents could meet with him (Sam is the Town Board RBL representative) to make suggestions for updating Town code (which would then need a public hearing and a vote by the Town Board to pass).
Transcript of chat comments: (You can see that there were 2 to 7 questions or comments every minute of the one hour meeting. Whew! Thank you, John Groetch for wrangling them.)
09:33:41 From Anthony Arrien: If you need to unmute just go to your lower left and click the mic icon to enable audio
10:03:53 From Judi Rappoport Blitzer: Could you please tell us if you know when the Pudding Street exit northbound will be closed and for how long?
10:04:06 From Anthony Arrien: Here is where questions may be posted
10:04:57 From Stephen Ward: Hear, Hear!
10:05:53 From Lois: Please clarify the meaning of “Public Beach”. There are many people here that think the Beaches in RBL are “Private.”
10:06:21 From Stephen Ward: Please mute your mic unless speaking. Thank you.
10:06:47 From Sam Lee: Public beaches regulated by the BOH: Children’s, Moon, Spur, & Park
10:07:37 From Sam Lee: District landings & shore access not regulated by BOH: Roaring Brook Lane, North Beach, Ferber’s Landing, Shore Lane & Cardiac Beach
10:08:08 From amaliaberdecia: So does that mean that CB, Spur and Park are public?
10:09:04 From Sam Lee: Public = for district residents… imho
10:10:09 From Lois: Thank you Sam Lee. The beaches here ARE PUBLIC and public beach rules apply
10:10:37 From Councilwoman Jackie Annabi: The lakes throughout our towns are all private lakes meaning those not permitted within the district can use it. ie I do not live in a lake district and I can not freely use your lake as I could say at Fahenstock which is public
10:11:04 From amaliaberdecia: They are not PUBLIC based on what was stated. It is ONLY open to DISTRICT RESIDENTS.
10:11:27 From Councilwoman Jackie Annabi: sorry … permitted with in the district CAN NOT use it
10:11:42 From amaliaberdecia: Sam O can you clarify this? Thank you.
10:12:18 From Councilwoman Jackie Annabi: Yes amalia that was a typo only district users can use your lakes.
10:12:30 From amaliaberdecia: Thank you Jackie!
10:12:58 From Kate and Jeff: Who is responsible for stopping people from entering the beach when at capacity?
10:13:18 From Anthony Arrien: The questions will be read by the moderator and answered verbally so that all answers will be recorded on the video. The chat won’t be on the video.
10:13:20 From Michael Moculski: Where are these regulations? The Town Code is very minimal on these.
10:14:01 From amaliaberdecia: Regulations will have to be updated?
10:14:09 From Councilwoman Jackie Annabi: hi Michael all codes for our lakes our on our town books. I will get you that code and email it to you.
10:14:18 From Anthony Arrien: Please wait for your questions to be read by the moderator after Supervisor Oliverios finishes speaking.
10:14:39 From Michael Moculski: I have it, but it doesn’t mention a lot of what we are speaking of
10:15:42 From Anthony Arrien: Please post your questions here. They will be answered during the agenda
10:16:13 From anton ioukhnovets: Regarding rope swing: can we look for creative solutions that will allow rope swing to exist
10:16:52 From Paul Corwin: outside boats: cars/trucks are stopping at our local boat launch. it is left to us to “self enforce” and confront these people. Most are outsiders: some RBL residents. (1) is there a still a concern about “foreign” weeds being introduced to our lake.; (2) security issues; (3) ID badges
10:17:51 From Monty & Char: Are we able to attend, virtually, the Board meeting?
10:17:58 From anton ioukhnovets: Regarding ropeswing: For years we are only looking for solutions that “Restrict” actions—can we start looking at solutions that allow certain activities be?
10:18:20 From lois: Its not quiet anymore…too many outsiders
10:18:44 From Michael Moculski: Regarding fishing. There is no Town regulation that regulates fishing except for from the beach. So if anyone who has a NYS fishing license, can they fish?
10:19:07 From Jonathan: Airbnb or all rentals in general?
10:19:41 From amaliaberdecia: if you have a fishing license you can fish
10:20:12 From Meg Brown: Agreed, Sam!!
10:20:20 From Councilwoman Jackie Annabi: Michael a fishing license does not give permission to fish in a private lake. if a district member is fishing they are allowed
10:20:47 From Roberta Korus: My concern about a total ban on Airbnb is that Airbnb will either (a) sue the town or (b) lobby at the county level to prohibit limitations. They do it everywhere. Reasonable regulation seems more likely to succeed.
10:20:52 From paulsavior: What can be done about poaching/theft from my backyard? Several items: hammock mattress (brand new), new shovel from tool shed (Door lock was broken) and other items.
10:20:55 From Councilwoman Jackie Annabi: jonathan the discussion is referring to short term rentals all rentals under 30days
10:21:38 From Michael Moculski: Yes, Jackie, but where does it say that? It’s not codified.
10:21:48 From amaliaberdecia: Would anyone be comfortable placing a rope swing on their lakefront property? If the answer is no, then the town will not feel comfortable placing a rope swing either. We live in a litigious society and who will pay the legal fees? The town = RBL district.
10:21:52 From Sam Lee: As part of a very small group of residents involved with our lake water quality monitoring, I think that more people and turnover of people here during the summer will serve to add more nutrients into the lake and exacerbate conditions conducive to excess algae blooms.
10:22:17 From Jonathan: thanks Jackie
10:22:24 From joel baumwoll: Bravo Sam. Air B&B will destroy our lake community. Will “summer rentals” fall in the Air B&B category or are they a different thing?
10:23:00 From Frances’s iPhone: Re: Abnb: reasonable regulation is simply the most reasonable.
10:24:09 From Sam Lee: Jackie: DEC police will not come to check fishing licenses routinely unless a resident calls because we are considered private…
10:24:43 From amaliaberdecia: True Sam
10:24:46 From anton ioukhnovets: RE: AIRBnB Again — the attitude of “banning everything” has been in our community for years — IT DOES NOT make this community better!
10:24:53 From Jonathan: I have rented my place. I have found great renters, several of whom are now residents of RBL – they bought homes. They loved the lake. All my renters respected the rules of the lake that I wrote into the rental contract. I understand the concerns but we can have rules regulating rentals.
10:25:07 From Lynne Bernstein: The only way to restrict fishing is to restrict non-residents altogether. Car tags, boat tags, beach tags.
10:25:33 From Sam Lee: Reasonable regulation: a heavy levy on AIRBNB owners to have septic systems that will be appropriate to the number of renters over the year..?
10:26:42 From Lynne Bernstein: Jonathan you rented for 3 months – we got to know your renters. They became neighbors.
10:27:42 From Meg Brown: While the issue of Air BNB is being discussed in town, can the current regulations( zooning, etc) be enforced and resume issuing fines to those not following current regulations?
10:28:00 From Ryan Holdridge: Can I suggest serialized car tags, that are linked to a property owners (by License plates, or some other identifiable information) in a document that all residents have access to?
10:28:11 From Lois: That makes it PUBLIC, correct and public rules apply
10:28:16 From Kate and Jeff: Why is there often a car blocking the north hiking trail entrance on Oakridge? Seeking clarification as I thought that entrance was accessible to the public.
10:28:20 From Monty & Char: What if in lieu of a security guard, if that is cost prohibitive, if we form a group of volunteers who would be willing to go around on particular days to do checks? Sort of like neighborhood watch.
10:28:20 From Zack Canepari: To be clear. There have only been 1-2 airbnbs available during the pandemic and they are not available short term. I have been looking for my parents. Its a super small number. People are not doing short term rentals because of corona
10:28:48 From Lynne Bernstein: The question of public vs. private has a slightly different nuance in the age of COVID. There are now rules for being out in public. Some people think that being on our private beaches means you don’t have to follow the guidelines for being in public. Those rules really apply whenever you
10:29:04 From amaliaberdecia: Boat launches are a problem. Not the beaches.
10:29:24 From lois: BEACHES ARE a problem
10:29:39 From paulsavior: back re theft of items from my backyard. I suspect local community teens
10:30:01 From amaliaberdecia: Does someone have a copy we can look at?
10:30:13 From Sam Lee: Kate & Jeff: that paper road goes up to meet Kitteredge Rd. and Dicktown Rd. Public access leading into Fahnestock to the north and PV Town parcel to the south. Laurie Gibbs who lives next door parked the truck there because non-resident ATV riders pulled up to launch their vehicles there. Just walk around the truck and if you see someone, let them know you live here
10:30:25 From Kate and Jeff: So why don’t the lifeguards call?
10:30:31 From amaliaberdecia: Lois: I haven’t seen you at the beach and I am a regular.
10:31:19 From lois: I won’t go to a beach where people are non compliant to public regulations
10:31:22 From Michael Moculski: I second Amalia’s request. We need enforceable rules or action can’t be taken by law enforcement.
10:31:44 From amaliaberdecia: Lois: Then how do you know it’s a problem? Hearsay?
10:31:53 From Frances’s iPhone: in our experience, parties at public beaches are more of a problem. my house is near one and we endure hours of loud noise quite often. my abnb renters have never used the beaches….
10:32:22 From anton ioukhnovets: I meant creative solution
10:32:24 From lois: I have a kayak and I can also see from north beach
10:32:58 From paulsavior: I suspect teens/youngsters since I found a small toy fantasy car model in my yard near where the hammock mattress was mtaken.
10:34:01 From Monty & Char: Can they fish from the beaches when no one is swimming? It happens all the time here
10:34:31 From Jonathan: Can people swim from the boat launches
10:35:19 From Judi Rappoport Blitzer: id like to ask a question personally
10:35:48 From Meg Brown: We’ve had two serious incident’s this year where unknown people have been belligerent with the lake superintendent and residents - yelling screaming, cursing, etc. Escalated and almost turned physical
10:35:59 From Stephen Ward: Can the text file of the chat be sent to attendees after the meeting?
10:36:04 From misterbasquali: How do the public know about how to participate in that public hearings of airbnb?
10:36:19 From amaliaberdecia: Airnb should be regulated to allow for long-term rentals, not day to day.
10:36:30 From Kate and Jeff: Agreed
10:36:40 From Michael Stoll: Can someone put the sheriff’s number in the chat?
10:36:51 From Monty & Char: 225-4300
10:37:00 From joel baumwoll: Sam, how distinguish between Air BNB and longer term rentals—e.g. June-September twosome people or longer term rentals to same people?
10:37:53 From lois: We have car stickers people won’t use them
10:37:58 From Kate and Jeff: Didn’t we try car tags?
10:38:20 From lois: I have one I got when I moved in
10:38:21 From Monty & Char: Some people don’t want stickers on their car that identifies where they live.
10:38:23 From Sam Lee: Sam - Why is it that the sheriff’s dept likes to punt off complaints to either the POA or NYS Troopers when you call about a situation on district property!?!?!?
10:38:37 From Michael Moculski: “Tokens” are what are listed in the Town Code for RBL
10:39:05 From lois: We had beach tags also… they were eliminated. There is no one to monitor it
10:39:38 From amaliaberdecia: Car tags and boat tags are sufficient. Enforcement is the problem.
10:40:11 From anton ioukhnovets: We are talking about car tags for 20 years! Every year. The issue is enforcement. Who monitors visitors at Lake Oscawana?
10:40:18 From Lynne Bernstein: Car tag are most important because non-residents come by car -often bringing boats. Anyone can quickly spot a car without a tag. We can use tags like handicapped tags that hang from the mirror or ID tags – with holograms that are impossible to duplicate.
10:40:33 From Ryan Holdridge: Residents can monitor and Police can enforce
10:40:39 From Sam Lee: HYH
10:40:47 From lois: I agree. We have car tags. NO BODY monitors it
10:40:53 From Alex Harris: Car tags will only work if everyone opts in.
10:40:57 From Ina Cholst: We have, as you point out, a set of RBL District Codes that are outdated. Can we set up a committee of residents that, together with the Town Board, can look these over and make some needed corrections. A good example is that although there are signs saying that only residents can park at beaches, there is no code stating this. We are left without enforcement muscle.
10:40:57 From Lynne Bernstein: Yes Ryan Holdridge.
10:41:03 From Ryan Holdridge: serialized ones would be best
10:41:16 From Sofia Madyarova: why airbnb is being single out (vs other rental platforms)? or are you proposing to ban all short term rentals? we’ve rented our house several times and found the renters to be responsible, law abiding people. Many of them are friends or relatives of other RBL residents
10:41:21 From amaliaberdecia: Ina: agreed
10:41:31 From Monty & Char: How many here would be willing to volunteer to monitor beaches, boat launches, etc.?
10:41:33 From Michael Moculski: Ina: agreed
10:41:44 From Lynne Bernstein: Ina: an excellent idea! For an example of a much more robust lake district code take a look at Kent.
10:41:53 From Kate and Jeff: Ina: agreed
10:42:16 From Nancy Bobrowitz: What are the regulations regarding boat size and speed?
10:42:55 From Michael Moculski: We also have to remember that the regulations would apply to all. Some residents seem to feel the rules don’t apply to them.
10:43:03 From Meg Brown: An Air B&B renter just drowned on Lake Oscsawana last week. Big liability there
10:45:45 From Sam Lee: Sam - I have a question regarding our dam to ask
10:45:50 From Councilwoman Jackie Annabi: hi meg he was a guest staying with a resident. not an short term renter. the son of a resident had 3 friends over for the weekend sofia I think the term air bnb is what they are using but Sam is referring to all short term rentals
10:47:14 From Lynne Bernstein: Sam O what about the Code Enforcement Officers – can they enforce any of these codes?
10:47:22 From Michael Moculski: Would that Security guard be bonded and have any enforcement powers?
10:47:28 From amaliaberdecia: On average how many non-residents come to the lake? Week day average? Weekend average?
10:48:22 From amaliaberdecia: Security have no authority. It is the equivalent of a volunteer.
10:48:40 From Kate and Jeff: There are a lot of great topics that come up at these meetings. How do we reach people that don’t attend?
10:48:48 From Lynne Bernstein: Amalia it’s hard to know if they’re residents or not but I saw 8 boats without tags pass my house last weekend fishing and just cruising around. Were they residents? Don’t know.
10:48:55 From Zack Canepari: By eliminating airbnb, you prevent many of us from having friends and family visit which is one of the biggest reasons we bought here. ALSO, for some of us that split their time between here and the city (really a pre-pandemic issue), airbnb offered an opportunity to subsidize some costs. Instead of banning it cold turkey, why not allow there to be an application process or something similar? What we dont want is for developers or investors buying and only renting. But many of us use it very responsibly
10:49:45 From joel baumwoll: Hugs to Sam.
10:50:16 From Alex Harris: Zack: Agree!
10:51:08 From Frances’s iPhone: Just a note: we don’t reside full time at our lake home, but we pay our taxes, take great care of our property and clean our septic tank, and are sensitive to issues involving full-time residents….important to us that we are inclusive and give people like us more voice in our discussions.
10:51:16 From Paul Corwin: any concern about outside boats bringing weeds? or is that “last year’s issue?”
10:51:38 From Sam Lee: Always an issue Paul
10:51:41 From Kate and Jeff: Zach: good point
10:52:05 From Roberta Korus: I’d be happy to participate in a committee to update the district rules and synchronize the town code and the district rules.
10:52:40 From Zack Canepari: We’re against a security guard. This is a moment to be tolerant and inclusive. We dont have a crime problem here. Lets just be responsible adults and not make this community less tolerant. Too many people at the beach is a covid problem. Park Beach looked like a night club last weekend
10:52:45 From amaliaberdecia: Zach – As a FT with children, having day to day renters in a community with an a revolving door of renters is a problem. Airbnb should be regulated and not allow day to day renters. It’s not a problem, until it becomes a problem!
10:53:04 From Meg Brown: No no no, you mean the “Damn Advisory Committee”
10:53:21 From Lynne Bernstein: The RBL advisory committee never meets. Can it have a public meeting?
10:54:07 From misterbasquali: I have a specific question to sam about how will the public be made aware of the public hearings/discussion about airbnb?
10:55:00 From Ryan Holdridge: My new suggestion is to have serialized hanging tags that would get linked to their license plate (or owner name) in a google doc (allows everyone to access on their phone) that we could all check to verify cars parked at the beaches. If someone finds a car parked without a tag (or with a tag with out of state plates), we wouldn’t need to confront the person, we could simply call the Police. Owners could take the tag down when they go to work, etc.. After looking at pricing on it – looks like about $1 per tag
10:55:15 From anton ioukhnovets: Private security guard in this day and age sounds like a terrible idea.
10:55:26 From Kate and Jeff: How do we know about public hearings, in general?
10:55:58 From Alice Soloway: Agree with Zach on security guard. It sends the wrong message.
10:56:14 From Anthony Arrien: This video will be availbale online and will also air on the local TV channel in Putnam Valley, and Comcast Public Access TV
10:56:21 From Ryan Holdridge: It is easier to type while not holding a baby
10:58:16 From Judi Rappoport Blitzer: Mine was the first question and still is not answered. Please recognize me so I can ask it directly. Thank you.
10:58:35 From misterbasquali: are the public meetings at the town hall or virtual?
10:59:04 From Anthony Arrien: Public Hearings are also listed on the Town Calendar here and here.
11:01:26 From Kate and Jeff: Thank you, Sam
11:02:01 From Michael: This is a question NOT about AirBnB. If regular folks—residents’ friends, family, kids, longer-term summer renters, home swaps, people using houses for free—have a loud party, use a beach improperly, how do we regulate that?
11:02:08 From amaliaberdecia: Thank you Sam and RBLPOA for organizing!
11:02:13 From Frances’s iPhone: thank you! you do such an important job for the benefit all of us
11:02:29 From lois: Thank You Sam!
11:02:46 From Michael: thanks Sam!
11:06:10 From Lynne Bernstein: It works well if people are asked to submit their questions in advance rather than through the chat. Chat is good for follow-up but most people know their questions in advance and can submit them.